Re: Branding and marketing

From: Rob Frankel <rob_at_robfrankel.com>
Date: Tue 16 Jan 2001 15:34:19 -0500

GERI STUNZ KONSTANTIN <geri_at_virtualadv.com> WROTE:
> I wrote that you do branding for products, not services.

ROB FRANKEL <rob_at_robfrankel.com> WROTE:
> Um, that's totally and completely wrong. No offense,
> just calling it like I see it. Brands turn users into
> evanglists, and you can evangelize a service just as
> easily as a product. Maybe moreso.

GERI STUNZ KONSTANTIN <geri_at_virtualadv.com> WROTE:
> Uh- Rob, that's totally and completely wrong. No
> offense, just calling it like I know it and have done
> it successfully for over 30 years. (What do evangelists
> have to do with this???)

What's the big deal about 30 years? Lots of people do
things for longer than that but it doesn't make them
right. Brand value really counts on the bottom line.
If you can turn users into evangelists, your customer
acquisition costs go lower, your retention is higher
and amount per transaction is higher. All of which
makes a well-branded client more profitable.

ROB FRANKEL <rob_at_robfrankel.com> WROTE:
> I always point out that the ultimate success of a
> well-branded service is to have a prospect say,
> "I don't car how much they cost -- just get them
> on this job. I don't trust anyone else!"

GERI STUNZ KONSTANTIN <geri_at_virtualadv.com> WROTE:
> Sorry - that's not branding.

Sorry, that's exactly what branding is.

ROB FRANKEL <rob_at_robfrankel.com> WROTE:
> Branding is branding. Advertising merely raises the
> awareness of the brand. The two obviously should be
> compatible, but don't ever mistake one of the other.

GERI STUNZ KONSTANTIN <geri_at_virtualadv.com> WROTE:
> Your definition of Advertising is an insult to all
> Advertising pros out there.

No, the way advertising hacks like to pass themselves
off as branding experts is what's insulting.

GERI STUNZ KONSTANTIN <geri_at_virtualadv.com> WROTE:
> Advertising is much more
> than you claim - maybe bad advertising merely raises
> awareness of a brand, but without good advertising any
> brand will cease to exist. A brand can exist without
> branding. You, my friend, are way off on this one.

Nah. I once hung around ad agencies, too. In fact, it
was their total lack of business experience and
branding strategy that convinced me to specialize in
branding. Which has worked out pretty
well for both me and my clients. I often get asked to
conduct agency reviews and to date, not one
(regardless of size) has ever been able to adequately
provide any knowledgeable or accountable branding
strategy.

GERI STUNZ KONSTANTIN <geri_at_virtualadv.com> WROTE:
> Re: Keds Brand Sneakers & Wheaties being instantly
> recognizable as such:

ROB FRANKEL <rob_at_robfrankel.com> WROTE:
> But how does that make you choose it?

GERI STUNZ KONSTANTIN <geri_at_virtualadv.com> WROTE:
> It doesn't. That's not the purpose of branding.
> That's the purpose of advertising.

Wrong. But you and I just might be too far apart to
ever see things the same way.

ROB FRANKEL <rob_at_robfrankel.com> WROTE:
> Branding is critical to rapid integration of
> new products, too. That's how they get up to speed in
> an existing marketplace. The brand is how people
> distinguish the old stuff from the new.

GERI STUNZ KONSTANTIN <geri_at_virtualadv.com> WROTE:
> Uh - absolutely not. I guess you think branding will
> allow you to distinguish between Tide and the new
> improved Tide.

Nope. never said that.

GERI STUNZ KONSTANTIN <geri_at_virtualadv.com> WROTE:
> Sorry. Not so. I had also said "Brand
> building encompasses a variety of advertising and
> marketing techniques. Branding encompasses specific and
> usually visual or audible techniques to in essence
> create a Pavlovian response to certain stimulae to
> impress a Brand name product in someone's mind. You
> think Tide you think clean. Tide owns "clean". No one
> else can touch it."

Nope. Not even close to true. You gotta get out more.

ROB FRANKEL <rob_at_robfrankel.com> WROTE:
> Guess that leaves Clorox and Fab and Pine
> Sol out, eh?

GERI STUNZ KONSTANTIN <geri_at_virtualadv.com> WROTE:
> Yes it does - have a look at their ads.

No, look at their brands. If you can't discern a brand
strategy from an ad strategy, I suspect that's where
the problem lies. Don't feel bad. Lots of ad guys
have the same problem.

ROB FRANKEL <rob_at_robfrankel.com> WROTE:
> More people confused as to what branding is and how
> it works. But just because they got it wrong
> doesn't invalidate the discipline.

GERI STUNZ KONSTANTIN <geri_at_virtualadv.com> WROTE:
> What they did was not branding. Just bad advertising.

I think you would do well to define branding
differently from advertising. You seem to be merging
the two.

GERI STUNZ KONSTANTIN <geri_at_virtualadv.com> WROTE:
> I additionally said " Brand loyalty is not branding
> either. Brand loyalty is built up through favorable
> price points, superior products and tangible consumer
> benefits. This can be accomplished more quickly than
> branding."

ROB FRANKEL <rob_at_robfrankel.com> WROTE:
> Wrongoritos, mon ami. You're brush is too broad. I
> can make the same claim with premium price points on
> products and services with parity quality. In fact, I
> often have to.

GERI STUNZ KONSTANTIN <geri_at_virtualadv.com> WROTE:
> My brush is narrow Rob - like the real definition of
> branding.

Honestly, from where I sit, reality has little to do
with your arguments. Hey, don't get me wrong. You've
been doing this for 30 years and if that's what floats
your boat, more power to you. Just don't try to pass
off three decades as the ultimate gospel. It ain't
necessarily so. The brands and definitions you cite
are rooted in decades old practices, much (not all) of
which has become outdated, primarily due to what I
call the media Implosion (first chapter of my book).

GERI STUNZ KONSTANTIN <geri_at_virtualadv.com> WROTE:
> I was firmly told once by a Johnson & Johnson
> client years ago that I was confusing branding with
> advertising brand building techniques and I will never
> make that mistake again!

Unfortunately, I think you just have.

All in good faith and the spirit of cooperation,

Rob Frankel, http://www.robfrankel.com
Big Time Branding Guy and Author of "The Revenge of Brand X: How to
Build A Big Time Brand on the Web or Anywhere Else" & "The Frankel
Tapes -- Volume One" on sale now at http://www.revengeofbrandx.com





Received on Tue Jan 16 2001 - 14:34:19 CST