NONE: RE: ONLINE ADS>> Controlled emailing
RE: ONLINE ADS>> Controlled emailing
Ryan Scott (rscott_at_netcreations.com)
Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:27:49 +0000
> At 03:22 AM 3/23/97, Jeff Maier wrote:
> >Michael -
> >
> >You might try out Roz Resnick's lists (Postmaster Direct).
> <snip>
>
> Jeff,
>
> Postmaster Direct's main source for their lists is Catalogmart.
> Catalogmart is owned by savvy.com, a company with a very bad
> reputation. I have received repeated spams that I have traced to
> their lists, and I have never used catalogmart. Savvy.com does
> things like scan the Usenet and Web pages to get email addresses.
> They make no bones about it, I have spoken with them on the phone. I
> have also complained to UUNET, savvy.com's provider. I am currently
> trying to get savvy.com disconnected and have spoken with many
> people at UUNET, including the VP for Legal Affairs.
The CatalogMart names are 100% opt-in. While savvy.com does in fact
have spam lists, we will not represent them. That's why he got such a
low negative response rate - his mailing with us was not spam. We
will never represent a spam list.
(CatalogMart is not our main source, although they do provide a lot of
names. We're also working with building lists for NewsLinx,
LinkStar, and not yet online: a major business magazine, and a major
online service (one of the big 3))
PostMaster Direct represents only 100% opt-in lists. With each
subscription request we get, we send a confirmation email to the
address to make absolutely sure it was a valid signup request, and not
someone signing someone else up. With the Catalogmart names we get
from savvy, we send a preliminary confirmation message out to make
absolutely sure again, before we ever send them a single message.
> Even if this was a legitimate list, the .5% negative response rate
> is very hard to believe. Was the return address yours?
With opt-in lists, that type of negative response rate would be a
little high. We have a list of 33,000 web desingers and programmers
(also 100% opt-in) and .5% negative response rate would be 165 bad
responses. We don't get that many. On a smaller list that is less
frequently mailed to, .5% sounds reasonable. The more frequently we
mail to a list, the more opportunities to unsubscribe, so the more
sure the recipient is that he wants to get the mail.
> I have several lists that I use to send notices of updates to my Web
> sites (an excellent idea Cliff Kurtzman shared with me in the fall
> of 1994.) Everyone on these lists visited the respective sites and
> specifically asked to be on the list. Still, about 2% unsubscribe
> with each mailing.
Yes, unsubscriptions are different than negative responses. We mail
to our lists quite a bit, probably more than you. The unsub rate
starts to drop off. Our unsubscriptions come to a different address
than a flame would. Also, because our lists are 100% opt-in,
generally the only flames people get are because the person can't
figure out how to unsubscribe and they are getting nasty about it.
Every message we send out has this header:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is no spam, this is a PostMaster Direct voluntary targeted list!
TO UNSUB: forward this entire message to deleteme_at_postmasterdirect.com
UNSUB ALL: forward this entire message to deleteall_at_postmasterdirect.com
MAIL TO LISTS: http://www.PostMasterDirect.com/ 100% OPT-IN
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(might be mangled by my mail program in this message)
but still, some people would rather reply and flame the sender after
they failed to unsub on their first try. Even though they signed up
for it, yes. That's human nature, at least on the net.
> Unsolicited email is not the same as unsolicited snail mail and if
> it becomes an accepted marketing method, the Internet will be
> overwhelmed by it.
Absolutely true. I made the mistake of responding to a spam that was
sent to me, to try to get them to try opt-in instead of spamming all
the time. Now I'm on every list known to man, and I get all kinds of
total CRAP. We are an anti-spam organization, we've been pushing the
ISA and the DMA to adopt opt-in as the only legitimate way to do email
solicitation.
> I would strongly advise never sending email to an address that you
> yourself hadn't acquired through legitimate means.
That's a little hard line, Bob. We've got 3000 lists full of people
who have specifically requested commercial messages. It's a
terrifically valuable resource. Jeff's response is not uncommon.
Ziff Davis got a 9% response rate and in their words "a minimum of
negative feedback". Ziff would never dare use a spam list. ichat,
another 'legitimate' internet company (not a Make Money Fast co),
earned $50,000 in 5 hours with our lists, selling $3500 server
software. NEC, PC Week, Internet Outfitters, and many thousands
more companies all very concerned about their image have used our
lists with great response.
Email *can* be done the right way. It MUST be 100% opt-in, and the
only way to do that is from the ground up, starting at 0. This is
why no one has done it until now. It takes a long time.
for the interested:
http://www.PostMasterDirect.com/
Ryan
______________________________________________________________________
Ryan Scott - rscott_at_netcreations.com - 718 522 1531
- Reinventing Direct Marketing on the Net -
NetCreations, Inc - http://www.netcreations.com/
- Targeted 100% OPT IN Email -
PostMaster Direct Response - http://www.postmasterdirect.com/
*be sure to quote me in your reply*
