NONE: ONLINE-ADS>> Spree.com asks for feedback (again)
ONLINE-ADS>> Spree.com asks for feedback (again)
Mark J. Welch (MarkWelch_at_MarkWelch.com)
Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:45:13 -0600 (CST)
Today, I received the following email from Mike Dever, the
owner of Spree.com. I am not going to waste more time on
responding to Spree (which simply ignores my emails and
telephone calls), but I assume that Mr. Dever is going to
follow up by claiming that I have not responded to his
queries and that I am thus being "unfair," so I am posting
this reply to a public forum (with copies to Spree staff) --
hopefully this will prevent Spree from making future claims
that I have been unfair or failed to elaborate, despite my
many past efforts to do so.
>From: Mike Dever <Mike_at_Brandywine.com>
>To: "'markwelch_at_markwelch.com'" <markwelch_at_markwelch.com>
>Cc: Jim Giuliano <Jim_Giuliano_at_spree.com>
>Subject: Spree.com
>Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:49:53 -0500
>Mark,
>It concerns me that you continue to list Spree.com's SIP program as a
>"SCAM". Please let me know SPECIFICALLY what information you require to
>make a determination of the validity of this program. We are now the
>largest referral marketing and consumer loyalty program on the Web with more
>than º million partners.
>Mike_at_spree.com <mailto:Mike_at_spree.com> "Where it pays to shop"
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Okay, I will reply. This is certainly not the first or
second or third or fourth time I have replied with
specifics, and Mike knows it. I have also spoken with
several other people at Spree. They all consistently lied
to me. Most recently, people from Spree have called and
sent email with INVALID return phone numbers. (See my
November 2 post at
http://www.egroups.com/list/affiliate-l/401.html). They
apparently have decided that instead of addressing the major
flaws in their affiliate program, they will simply harass
people who criticize them. They claim to want feedback, but
they ignore all feedback. They claim to be responsive, but
they refuse to respond to inquiries.
So, what are my specific complaints? Here's a recap of some
of them, with citations to some prior public posts which
Spree is aware of (but has deliberately ignored).
(1) In addition to many exchanges I have had with Spree,
Allan Gardyne (http://www.associateprograms.com/) presented
a couple dozen affiliates' complaints to Spree's Les Fowler,
who eventually replied (see
http://www.associateprograms.com/spree-complaints.html (note
that you Allan's site description of Spree starts with a
very positive, glowing review of Spree but is followed by
criticism and a "not recommended" rating due to Spree's
repeated changes to its affiliate model).
(2) Spree uses an intentionally confusing and cryptic
affiliate-compensation scheme that is virtually impossible
to decipher, and which ultimately does NOT pay any amount to
the most affiliates. See the Spree affiliate program
description and terms at their site
(http://www.spree.com/sip/) -- I'd love to hear from any
affiliates who think the terms are clear and easy to
understand.
(3) The actual compensation scheme offers NO PAYMENTS to
most affiliates, and trivial commissions to any affiliates
lucky enough to generate significant sales volumes. SIP
points are attributed to each item sold, usually about one
point per $10 of value. These SIP points are then assigned
a value at a later time.
(a) Your own purchases earn a rebate of 10 cents per SIP
point (SIP points have higher values if you earn more than
200 SIP points during the month -- e.g. more than $2,000 in
direct purchases).
(b) Under Spree's newest change, every customer is a SIP
(Spree Independent Partner). Also, any "downline" sites are
also SIP partners and earn their own SIP points.
(c) You earn SIP points for sales to other people who follow
links from your site, and for sales to customers who find
Spree through your "downline" sites, but these points have
NO VALUE unless you are at a "higher level" than your
downline "partners." Your "downline sites" collectively
must earn you more than 200 points in a month -- about
$2,000 in sales during the month -- in order for you to be
eligible for ANY payment for those points. And you NEVER
earn any money from points that come from any "downline"
sites who reach the same level as you.
(4) After months of promises and many missed deadlines,
Spree finally added ONLINE REPORTING in November, and I
reported on November 25 (at
http://www.egroups.com/list/affiliate-l/483.html) that my
own site had earned a trivial total of just 37 "secondary
SIP points" from June through September (which presumably
means that my "downline" sites had generated about $370 in
sales). According to Spree, these points had NO VALUE.
(This is NOT a situation where I simply have not earned
enough to be eligible for payment -- the points disappear
without value at the end of each month.) A site that
generates $1,500 of sales for Spree every single month will
NEVER EARN A PENNY FROM SPREE.
(5) When I called Spree's staff in the past, I have been
told many different things, and they have repeatedly denied
that the program would ever fail to pay affiliates who
generated direct or referral business. When I pointed out
that the "SIP point" program provided that sites would earn
NOTHING from sales if the "downline" site was at the same
level, I was told this was a "mistake" and that sites would
ALWAYS earn some value for all points, despite contrary
provisions in the written contract. I knew at the time that
this was a lie, and now the company has proven it: when they
finally posted their online reports, they admitted it:
points have NO VALUE unless your downlines collectively
generate at least 200 points in a month
(6) On several occasions, the company claimed to "match" the
affiliate programs of competitors. The company has
presented this in various ways to sites, including a
"guarantee" that Spree's commission system will
automatically compute what the commission would be at
Amazon, Barnes and Noble, or CD Now and then "match" that
commission for the affiliate if Spree's SIP Point
computation would be less. THIS IS BULLSHIT: They just
don't do it.
(7) I have NEVER received any credible report from any Spree
affiliate reporting that the company has paid them anything
other than a nominal amount. The company has repeatedly
claimed that it has written huge checks to affiliates, but
no affiliates have ever made any credible reports of
payment.
(8) Most recently, Scott Frangos posted a message to this
list (http://www.egroups.com/list/affiliate-l/411.html)
stating that he had been "paid" an unspecified amount by
Spree and that the company had fulfilled his orders (note
that Spree DOES promise to pay commissions for your own
orders, but not for any other orders your site generates
unless your "downlines" generate at least 200 points).
Scott also claimed to know of other webmasters who had been
paid (but he didn't identify them).
I asked Scott several reasonable follow-up questions both in
a private email and in a post to this list (which you can
see at http://www.egroups.com/list/affiliate-l/411.html),
but he never responded. This evening, I followed up by
calling and leaving a message at Scott's office, and I am
sending a copy of this email to him at both of his known
addresses, so hopefully he will jump in and provide some
additional information to help affiliates evaluate the Spree
affiliate program.
(9) I have received a number of reports of orders that were
never fulfilled; one fellow even posted a complaint to this
list
(http://www.egroups.com/list/affiliate-l/mg437989304.html).
Most of the complaints I have received were copies of
messages sent to Spree; none of the customers or affiliates
has ever reported that Spree satisfied them, nor has Spree
ever responded to me regarding these many complaints. In
late November, Allan Gardyne also reported that he has
received many recent reports of non-fulfillment of Spree
orders.
Okay, Mr. Dever: there are my specific reasons for calling
the Spree.com affiliate program a "scam." I call it a
"scam" because it makes vague promises of payment to
affiliates, but it is virtually impossible for web sites to
ever earn any actual payments on purchases (other than the
affiliate's personal purchases). The company's staff has
lied to affiliates, and many customers have complained that
paid orders are not fulfilled.
I'd like to see a reply from Spree to the Affiliate-L
mailing list, where 500+ web publishers who are interested
in affiliate programs can review the replies and compare
them with their own experiences and with the published terms
at the http://www.Spree.com/SIP/ web site. I don't expect
any reply, because Spree is a scam.
-- Mark J. Welch, Web Site Banner Advertising
-- http://www.markwelch.com/bannerad/
-- Ad rates: http://www.markwelch.com/bannerad/baf_spon.htm
-- (925) 462-8483 voice - Pleasanton, California
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