NONE: Re: ONLINE-ADS>> Search Engine Optimization = Waste of Time
Re: ONLINE-ADS>> Search Engine Optimization = Waste of Time
Robert J. Woodhead (trebor_at_animeigo.com)
Tue, 17 Nov 1998 05:04:45 -0600 (CST)
RICHARD ASKS:
>First, there's the question: Is search engine optimization
>worth it? I define search engine optimization as the process
>of continously monitoring your ranking in various search
>engines and tweaking your pages and keywords to get a higher
>ranking.
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Constant monitoring, no, in almost all cases (in particular
since these days, with the exception of AltaVista, it takes
weeks or months to get your pages re-indexed, so the
lag-time in the feeback loop is too long).
Careful analysis to choose the right key PHRASES (as pointed
out by Eric, this is crucial), yes. There are several links
on http://selfpromotion.com/links.t that are damned useful
resources for this.
Designing pages to be attractive to both people and search
engines, yes.
>Second, there's the question: How many search engines and
>directories should one register in?
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are approximately 20-25 general purposes major search
engines and indexes that everyone should submit to. There
are another 25-40 general indexes that most people to submit
to if time permits. There are another 100 or so
semi-specialized indexes (ie: business-only, online mall
indexes, etc) that everyone should submit to if their site
is appropriate. And there are gazillions of highly specific
indexes/websites that are inappropriate for 99.44% of the
people, which means there are bunches out there that any
particular person should find.
>I question, as Joel did in his article, the ROI of search
>engine optimization in light of other traffic-building
>methods.
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The trick with URL registration is to register in the 5% of
the gazillions of indexes that will get you 95% of all the
possible clickthroughs. This means the Big-10 or 25 +
selected other indexes. With search engine optimization, it
is spending the 5% of the time/effort/money to get 95% of
the clickthroughs you would get if you were page 1 on every
one of your important keywords.
>This addresses the other question - How many search engines
>and directories should one register in?
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's a pretty simple "is the effort to register at another
site worth the return I'll get off it" calculation. ;^)
One of the design goals of selfpromotion.com was to
eliminate, as much as possible, the duplicated effort in URL
registration -- all that typing -- so that the more sites
you register with, the more data the site has collected, and
so the marginal cost of doing one more site becomes very
low. That's the real value added of the site. Coming back
in a few months to promote to the 5 or 10 new worthwhile
indexes I may have found in the meantime is the work of a
few minutes. Popping in to repromote to all the search
engines every month is the work of a few moments.
The value-added I provide to the target sites (if I didn't
provide such, I'd just be cost-shifting, which would be
unethical) is that I can do extensive testing of the input
data, so that they are more likely to get an accurate
submission, and also filtering of the submissions, so that
some inappropriate ones never get sent.
>But looking at the referrals of the access logs across a
>number of sites we
>host, I've noticed that the overwhelming amount of traffic
>comes from just the seven I listing in my previous mail.
>And of that group, the majority of
>the traffic comes from Yahoo.
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Keep in mind that all clickthroughs are not created equal.
There are going to be indexes where a single clickthrough is
worth 10 from Yahoo. Of course, you don't always know which
those are going to be in advance!
Still, you are right that Yahoo is crucial. I insist that
people submit manually to Yahoo because it needs to be done
in a special way (I just load em up with bad advice and send
them on their way). The most crucial thing with Yahoo is to
ensure that your site description & name, combined, contain
as many of your important keywords as possible while still
meeting their guidelines, and then PRAYING that they will
use it.
Mine got edited down to the point where it's not going to
come up in searches, and I've been asking them to change it
for months without success. So if there's someone from
Yahoo reading this, take pity on this poor mortal and change
the http://selfpromotion.com/ listing to read:
Automatically registers your url at all the top search
engines. Use it for free to promote your website, pay only
if you want to.
(And over at Yahoo, there is an evil cackle as this posting
goes up on the office wall, and all the reviewers smile and
say "Yeah, we'll be waiting for your next change request,
Robert... Heh Heh Heh!")
>My conclusion is that just because 220 directories exists,
>it doesn't mean people actually use more than a handful.
>And since each one of those 220 have a different registration
>process and each one is not necessarily appropriate for every
>client, they have to be evaluated almost on a one by one basis.
>This takes time, which when you bill hourly equals money.
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Most of the information the indexes require is the same.
Name, Email, Descriptions, Keywords. There are differences
in the lengths (# of words in the description, etc), so at
my site, you'll often be asked for several variants of a
field (with lots of javascript to aid in the cutting and
pasting, if you want it). But you only get asked on an
as-needed basis (I have a 20K line data entry script that
figures out what it needs based on what sites you are
currently promoting to), and after about the first 25 sites,
typically the only extra bit of information needed to
promote to another site is a category selection out of a
pulldown. It's easy for me to, for example, ask you to list
your keywords in order of importance and then give each
target site the maximum number it will accept.
>Based on this, I think it is fruitless for us to waste
>client dollars registering sites in places other than the
>big seven, where I know the ratio of time spent registering
>to number of visits they will get is high. However, there
>are times when we just do a whole slew of them because we
>can't convince a client they will get marginal return if we
>spend time registering them in places like COMFIND or The
>Global Online Directory.
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, but if you can spend the same amount of time and get
the big 25 instead of the big 7, then why not. I have a
couple of consultants who are faced with the same
time/results tradeoff as you, and what I did was build a
"turbo data entry" system that lets them quickly enter all
the key information in one form, so they can more quickly
promote to a larger core number of indexes. The nice thing
is that if they have a modicum of smarts, they can have a
CGI at their office that can talk HTTP send a POST to my
site and put the data in direct from their databases.
>1.) search engine/directory registration
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dirt cheap.
>2.) search engine optimization
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You know what I think about this.
>3.) newsgroup/discussion list postings
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups - marginal. Newsletters like O-A, huge bang for
buck. Why do you think I spend time composing these
monumental replies? I do an article every month or two for
internetday because it makes me several hundred dollars in
referrals.
>4.) linkage campaigns
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
More important every day, especially since search engines
are going to link-popularity schemes (see
http://google.stanford.edu/). Also, links on the right site
are worth much more than search engine listings.
One second-tier index put my button on their add-url page
and generated $1300 worth of business for me last quarter --
and promptly shut down before I could send them their
comission check!
>5.) self-published e-mail newsletters
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In most cases, preaching to those who have already found
you. But useful in some cases. Better to let someone else
do the work of running the newsletter, unless you can turn
it into a profit-center.
>6.) online media campaigns
>7.) off-line media campaigns
>8.) online contests
>9.) online advertising
>10.) off-line advertising
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How would I know. I'm a hacker, remember? In the original
sense of the word. A friend said I should extend the URL
registration system to do automatic contest entry, but I
decided it was too obnoxious an idea!
>11.) co-marketing/promotion arrangements
>12.) affiliate programs
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My affiliate program is quite effective, and I limit it to
indexes and paid-up users of the site. They are relatively
low maintenance, and get you all-important links.
The most linked-to site on the net is a horserace between
netscape.com and yahoo.com at about 1,150,000 pages
(according to a quick check on altavista). But amazon.com
has 225,000, almost as many as excite, and far more than
barnesandnoble.com (9,000). I expect that amazon.com will
start creeping up on the big 2 soon, and that's more
valuable to them than all those cute radio ads.
Poor old me has 2,124 so far. Our esteemed moderator's
company has 4,500. I'd write more, but I have to catch up
and pass him!
Best
R
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