The Online Advertising Discussion List Archives

==================================================================== Online Advertising Discussion List ==================================================================== List Moderator: Supported by: Kevin Fadden InterEdge kfad_at_interedge.com www.interedge.com =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- March 31, 1996 Digest #0007 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ******************************************************************** This weeks sponsor: InterEdge (www.interedge.com) For more information on this fertile advertising ground, check out our rate card at: http://www.interedge.com/AdInfo.html ******************************************************************** In this Digest... NEW ------- "Re: Online-Ads DIGEST #0006" ~ Multimakers "Internet Marketing Tips" ~ Bruce Keiffer CONTINUING ------- "Meta Tags" ~ Christopher Bain "Ad placement services?" ~ Cliff Kurtzman ~ Bob Hanna ~ Carolyn Maxine Most "Ad Banner Rate Models" ~ peter temes REQUESTS FOR INFORMATION ------- BANNER SWAP MEET ------- Look here for a *short* listing of sites that are looking to swap ad banners with each other, you, and everyone else. ***************** NEW ***************** ------------------------------------------------------------- From: Multimakers Subject: Re: Online-Ads DIGEST #0006 Ray wrote the following to me: "We get great value for our money in terms of brand/image building. We currently only have 20,000 visitors/month spending 10 min each at our site. This would cost me about $10,000 in traditional media if it were even possible for me to keep anyones attention for 10 minutes! Sales are very low." As a site designer and publisher, this is very useful information to me. I'm sure most of you know, selling advertising and advertisment designs for the web to people who don't know anything about it or think it is just a toy can be a major challenge (head-ache/ pain in the. . .). Testamonials of this type could be a good tool for getting through to people. Can anyone else share such statitistics and analysis? If I get enough good info, I will put together a nice page that everyone can print out and forward to their potential clients (Of course I'll including links and contact info for any contributors). I look forward to hearing from you. Rick -- Multimakers' Writing Department http://www2.polarnet.com/~multim/webwright/write4.htm INTERACTIVITY IS OUR SPECIALTY -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bkeiffer_at_flanet.com (Bruce Keiffer) Subject: Internet Marketing Tips Please post to Online ads. I am a subscriber. Thank you. Our company National Card Systems, Inc is in the business of providing merchant credit card processing services to the business industry. I am extremely pleased with the results we are getting from our site visits, our sales, and from the network rapport we are building Internationally by having our page on the web. Many website owners seem to be dissatisfied that they are not getting the # of hits they anticipated by being on the web. Many of these same people who are dissatisfied are doing nothing to impact their results, or have no idea as to what they should do to market whatever it is they are on the web for. I have put together a list of 25 Marketing Tips "Taming The Internet Frontier" that may be of some help to you in marketing your website and promoting your business, and presence on the Internet. This list has been my map for success in promoting our service. I plan to add more tips in the coming weeks. This is not a newsletter and there is nothing you have to subscribe to. These tips are yours free. I hope that they help you as much as they are helping me. To obtain yours, please email bkeiffer_at_natlcard.com. I look forward to your input and comments regarding them Accept Major Credit Cards In Your Business.(USA) Visit our web site at http://www.natlcard.com --------------------------------------------- 1-800-817-4289. E-mail bkeiffer_at_natlcard.com Internet Sponser of the "Tampa Bay Devil Rays" Major League Baseball Team. http://www.sptimes.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- ***************** CONTINUING ***************** -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bain <70242.661_at_compuserve.com> Subject: Meta Tags Someone asked about Meta tags.....so here's a quicky: Meta tags are hidden tags that you place inside of the tags. They contain information gathered by the various search engines, and in the words of one of the largest: They are VERY important! (direct quote) Most of the HTML books either gloss over them, or get too technically engrossed in them, but some of Laura Lemay's books handle them well (check out her site at: http://www.lne.com/lemay/ for info on her Teach Yourself HTML books...they're quite good, and engaging). In any event, there are several META tags that you can include, one which has a short description of your site, another that lists keywords. The search engines come through, doing their thing in the depths of the night, your META tags get read and your information goes into their various indexing fields. You are making their indexing job easier, more efficient, and much more beneficial to your traffic. Here is an example from my own site, inclusive of the tags (note that commas are ignored, and case doesn't matter): Friedman/Fairfax music book & CD publishers There are additional tags to "generate special HTTPD headers, to be sent by the server, that can activate special features in the client" (such as expiration dates) (Laura Lemay). And other tags with specific uses as well, but the DESCRIPTION and the KEYWORDS tag should be in the header of everyone's home page. If you're out to buy a book on HTML, this is one subject I always check for in the index. Chris Bain Director of Photography & New Media Friedman/Fairfax Glamour magazine warned its 3.5 million readers about us! Find out why at: http://www.webcom.com/friedman/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cliff.kurtzman_at_tenagra.com (Cliff Kurtzman) Subject: Re: Ad placement services? Jonathan Roy wrote (regarding Ad placement services): > If anyone has recommendations for or against these places, or knows of >services I have missed that do similar things, please let me (or the list) >know. I've dealt with both Focalink and Worldata, and they both seem quite reputable. But I would have to say that my experience with these services is fairly negative. Every six months or so a new person from Focalink sends me an email or calls asking me tons of questions about my sponsored web sites. I could understand it if they were just looking for an update of some statistics, but they don't seem to be even familiar with the data I sent them the last time. It takes quite a while to answer all the questions, and I've never had a single lead generated. WorldData is basically the same. They called or emailed once to tell me they might have a lead, but that was the last I heard from them. My overall feeling is that you will invest a lot of time dealing with these services and the expected return you will see may well be marginal. You might be better off investing your time working direct sales opportunities, but if you have the time to kill, it certainly doesn't hurt to talk to these folks either. All this is in spite of the fact that we offer many of our sponsorships at significantly below current market rates: for example, our Tennis Server site (http://www.tennisserver.com/) sells tennis-related sponsorships for $450/month (provides about 35,000-45,000 impressions, no surcharge for click-throughs, and an opportunity to send a customized monthly email message to a highly targeted tennis mailing list of over 10,000 at no additional cost). If they can't sell a sponsorship at these rates, then I don't think they are really working at it. My most sponsored site is the Year 2000 Information Center (http://www.year2000.com/), which now has 25 sponsors. It is very heavily sponsored because we are allied with someone who works very hard to direct sell the sponsorships. There is no substitute for making direct contact with a potential buyer, and for having a salesperson with good contacts within the industry you are targeting. The bottom line is that if someone came to these brokers looking for a site exactly like yours, then they might refer them on to you. But I wouldn't count on them going out and finding you sponsors that would have an interest in your site. And that it what it takes to find a sponsor. --Cliff Clifford R. Kurtzman President and CEO The Tenagra Corporation http://arganet.tenagra.com/ 713/480-6300 Internet Marketing, Public Relations, Consulting, and Web Site Design -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Hanna" Subject: BURST! Media Kevin, Thanks for inviting our input. We would be more than happy to tell your subscribers more about BURST. The easiest way for them to get the basic information is to visit our site (http://www.burstmedia.com). If, after taking a look at the site, anyone has further questions, we will be more than happy to speak with them on the phone or via email. BURST now represents more than 325 sites ranging in size from one with 7.5 million page views per month to some with about 1000 page views per month and many in the middle. We believe strongly that the real vitality of the internet is now and will continue to be among the many new sites cropping up every day. These represent a tremendous source of NEW information and consequently, NEW audiences for marketers. Unfortunately, the incredible proliferation of new sites has also made it virtually impossible for advertising agencies to deal with each of them on a direct basis. That's why a number of rep firms have also sprung up. It is a model that is common among other media, as well. Virtually every radio and television station in the country has a national sales firm that represents them to the agencies in major markets. Dozens (if not hundreds) of smaller magazines also retain commissioned rep firms to solicit national business for them. And there are at least 15 major rep firms handling newspapers all across the country. The need for firms representing networks of web sites is even more critical, however, when you consider that there are only about 1,500 newspapers and several thousand radio and television stations. Agencies find it impossible to deal with all of them... imagine how swamped they would be if tens of thousands of web site publishers were trying to get their story heard! We are glad to see a forum such as this where those of us involved in this exciting new business can exchange ideas. We look forward to participating and offering whatever insight we can. ------------------------------------------------ Bob Hanna New York, NY ------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Carolyn Maxine Most Subject: Ad placement services? Jonathan Roy writes > The best >I've seen so far is DoubleClick (www.doubleclick.net) but they haven't >responded to my email or calls the past week, and the person I need to speak >with is going to be gone another week or more. I've had the same problem with Doubleclick. I wonder if they are waiting untill 4/1 when you have to pay $995 to join their network to respond? I hate to think the worst of organizations, but then again the Advertsing Industy does not exactly have the best reputaion for integrity ... max Carolyn Maxine Most tel) 415 965-3890 email) maxmost_at_ix.netcom.com ARQ Business Solutions - Strategic Marketing and Business Development for Interactive Services, Web-Based Ventures & other "Hi-Tech" Enterprises -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter temes Subject: Ad Banner Rate Models >I think I need to mark some middle ground between Tara's post and Kevin's >previous comments. > >It's true, as Tara says, that there is a tendency to try to measure web ad >effectiveness -- and cut idiosyncratic deals -- like direct mail, becasue of >the floods of data that log files collet. I'm about to leave a marketing >post at a big direct mail publisher, Boardroom Inc, as my web publishing >business, Daily Online Media, takes off. And yes, you can indeed measure the >effectiveness of each ad on each website, just as you would measure the >effectiveness of each different creative "package" on each different mailing >list in a direct mail campaign. > >Now, Tara doesn't seem to like tying a variable ad rate to this kind of >measurement. I can guess she's got (at least) two reasons why: first, >there's more respectability in being like magazines than there is in being >like direct mail (and some big advertisers simply won't sign on to variable >rate deals -- Toyota, I'm told, will pay $20CPM for web ads and that's >that); second, there's a danger of making less money if we pitch variable >rates than if we have a flat rate card. > >Two thoughts: prestige is meangless; most of us are in this to make a >living; and, better measurement means more money for the ad venue, not less. > >Point two is always true, believe it or not. When we know that an ad fails >for an advertiser, we learn about our ad venue's limits, which is good, >because we can then market our services far more deeply within the narrowing >pool of potnetial advertisers. Web advertisers haven't seemd to do this >well, but the medium is new, and we're learning. > >With a click-through model, we benefit from our ad venue's power in a >close-to unlimited way (100% clickthrough is a great money maker, >exponentially more profitable than a $20 or $30 CPM). > >But here's where I have a problem with Kevin's ad model. When I first heard >that he had a click-through rate, and that is was relatively low, I though, >good deal, I'll buy some. But his model is rally a hybrid -- he charges for >the click-throughs, AND a CPM. His CPM is at market rate last I checked, but >by tossing in a surcharge for the clickthroughs, he prices himself out of a >lot of ads. A similar hybrid model -- at a CPM of 10 and click-trhough of 2 >cents -- works for me, and I've just booked some space on a web stie on >those terms. > >But pure click-through is more attractive to me, and I use that model on my >pages (six dailies, going live May first -- www.dailya.com). At 25 cents per >click through, and no other charges, I make money for my advertisers no >matter what, and I have the challenge on my end of making sure that my >people like their ads. This means suggesting new creative for the ads at >times, rotating the different versions of the banners (I request three >different versions of each ad), and positioning the ads in an attractive >way. All this is unconnected to the editorial content of the site, but no >more than a big advertiser would expect from a magazine or other ad vehicle. > >What do you think? > >Peter Temes >Publisher >Daily Online Media -------------------------------------------------------------------- ***************** REQUESTS FOR INFORMATION ***************** From: Carolyn Maxine Most Subject: Re: Online-Ads DIGEST #0005 Geoffrey Gussis writes >Subject: Introduction & Insurance issues for Online Start-ups > >Now that the introductory stuff is out of the way, I was wondering if >anyone has had experience with getting insurance for a 'virtual >corporation.' All corporations need liability insurance. It is not just physical injury but liability for the corporation's and officers' actions. I had a retail corporation and we carried 1 million in liability whicih I beleive is standard.I believe we paid $1500 a year (1992) including accident liability . FInd a good insurance broker and they can set you up. max Carolyn Maxine Most tel) 415 965-3890 email) maxmost_at_ix.netcom.com ARQ Business Solutions - Strategic Marketing and Business Development for Interactive Services, Web-Based Ventures & other "Hi-Tech" Enterprises -------------------------------------------------------------------- ***************** BANNER SWAP MEET ***************** -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Multimakers Alaska's Best: Alaska's Premier Online Magazine. http://www.alaskasbest.com -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Webling's Cafe mvassist_at_embratel.net.br (Tom Venetianer) http://mvassist.pair.com/ -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Pacific Coast Feather Company Ray Dornbusch http://www.pacificcoast.com/pcf/ad/partners.htm -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ EntreeNet: The premier online guide to restaurants! EntreeNet/NY Capital District: Kim Van Dyke, http://www.albany.net/~barnowl/entree.htm -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ BUY IT OnLine: Your online GUIDE to locating products and services! Mary Wolf, webmaster_at_buyitonline.com http://www.buyitonline.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- ==================================================================== Online Advertising is moderated by Kevin Fadden. 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