The Online Advertising Discussion List Archives

Online Advertising Discussion List -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- List Moderator: Supported by: Kevin Fadden InterEdge kfad_at_interedge.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- April 26, 1996 Digest#0026 -------------------------------------------------------------------- ******************************************************************** This week's sponsor: InterEdge For more information on this fertile advertising ground, check out our rate card at: -------------------------------------------------------------------- [THIS SPACE FOR RENT] For information on sponsoring Online-Ads, see: ******************************************************************** Here's what the running total of votes are for: DIGEST v. SINGLE MESSAGES 11 2 In this Digest... NEW ------- "LogoWear" ~ Raymond F. Sola CONTINUING ------- "Re: visitors vs. hits (IADS#25)" ~ Jack Jordan "Off Come the Gloves (was re: Yahoo and Proctor & Gamble)" ~ peter temes ~ Arkie Koehl ~ Raymond K Lemire ~ Jim Sullivan ~ Richard Sokolnicki ~ Carolyn Maxine Most PERSONAL INTRODUCTIONS ------- REQUESTS FOR INFORMATION ------- BANNER SWAP MEET ------- Look here for a *short* listing of sites that are looking to swap ad banners with each other, you, and everyone else. ***************** NEW ***************** -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: volition_at_pipeline.com (Raymond F. Sola) Subject: LogoWear Here is an interesting payment plan. Check out http://www.logo-d.com/ they are supposed to give you free sportswear with your URL on it for your adding a link to them. Ray ray_at_volition.com ______________________________________________________ The Volition to get FREE STUFF! http://www.volition.com/ PC WORLD - The Best Free Stuff Online - May, 1996 -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- ***************** CONTINUING ***************** -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jtjordan_at_nafta.net (Jack Jordan) Subject: Re: visitors vs. hits (IADS#25) From: Mary Going Subject: visitors vs. hits > >given that not everyone will enter a site from the top page (making >counters inaccurate), and given that hits are so bogus anyway (14 >graphics on a page equals 15 hits), then how does one reconcile the >differences between hits and actual visitors? > Don't even try -- forget hits -- and concentrate on visitors! Hits ARE bogus (your counter is probably not entirely accurate, either, and they are easily "spiked," or started with an initial value of, say, 50M; and counters without "since dd/mm/yy" dates are pretty much a total waste of time), at least in terms of counting viewership, and vary widely from page to page within the same site, not to mention across sites. Hits are, of course, a key metric if you are looking at capacity/performance and other technical issues, but are pretty useless (or worse, misleading) when talking about a CPM ad model. >general question - > >what is the most accurate way of measuring traffic to a site? > Drop all .gif, .jpg, and other (cgi, etc.) hits, or alternatively, keep only .htm* counts; total by day, week, whatever -- that gives you something like total impressions. Then total the subset of unique IP names (with possibly some allowance or timing logic for reuse of dynamic IP names (i.e., same AOL IP name 4 hours later -- same visitor, same visit? Unlikely.); total by day, week, whatever -- that gives you something like total visitors or viewers. (To really do it right, also screen out scooter.pa-x.dec.com, *.inktomi.com, crimpshrine.atext.com, and other web-crawler/spider-type search engine IP names.) BTW, dividing these 2 numbers, impressions/viewers, gives you some sort of Interest Quotient -- how interesting, relevant, useful, or something (depending on site purpose) the average viewer found your site to be. Again, this number will probably vary drastically site to site, and (in statistics-speak) is sometimes called a "big-ended" distribution -- a few visitors check out *everything*, and a lot only hit maybe 1 page, so the average is not really all that meaningful; instead of a single point in time number, look for an upward trend over time... -- jtjordan_at_nafta.net http://www.nafta.net -- Awarded PointCom's Top 5% of the Web (113/150 Rating) We can do the Same for You, on Your Budget! 512-472-8680 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter temes Subject: Okey Dokey. Click-throughs are really getting some tempers flaring. My two cents -- click-throughs are a great way to bill for advertisers. If an ad works, you make money. And potentially open-ended money. If an ad bombs, you make less, but increase your rotation of ads, and your potential for find the ads that do make money, assuming you've got a legitimate vehicle ofr ads and a good slaes force or personal selling skills. You make your life harder, and approach a more adversarial relationship with advertisers, and frankly cut agaisnt the internet-ethic of experimentation and adventure by prending to be boing magazine publishers and using that silly cpm model. Sorry guys... but this my take On another topic: you ca run a bunch of different log-file crunching software to measure traffic and weave hit data into session or unique visits data. Check out an article i worte for DM NEws on this, from about two weeks ago. ANd do call if you want to try some click-though ads on any of the seven Daily Online Media sites, rolling out through May. Peace. Peter Temes 203 371 7400 visit The Daily Aardvark beta site, www.dma.net/dailya/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arkie_at_sirius.com (Arkie Koehl) Subject: Re: Online-Ads DIGEST #0025 Re: Click-through rate setting >1) Yahoo has opened the Pandora's box for search engines which may be >compelled now to offer click-through rates. ...and for software developers to launch bot clickers. Arkie Koehl -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: noodle_at_plainfield.bypass.com (Raymond K Lemire) Subject: Click-Thru Advertising Kevin, I agree with you 100% concerning the Yahoo/P&G Click-thru discussion but for a very different reason. As a small business owner the thought of paying based on the number of visitors to my site is a very scary proposition. Especially if the visitors are part of the great unwashed masses (i.e. unqualified prospects). Going into an advertising situation expecting a price of $300 is one thing, receiving a bill for $3,000 or $30,000 would be something considerably different! This click-thru business goes against the basic small business model of trying to find the upside while remembering to protect your down-side - or in other words, don't put all of your marketing eggs in one basket. Personally, we will never advertise anywhere with click-thru rates as we can't afford that kind of risk. On the other hand if someone were to come up with a click-thru method based on a percentage of sales from that source then that's another story. But hardly one that Kevin would agree with! :) Oh, how rude, I haven't introduced myself...I have been lurking here for the past two weeks and have been enjoying it very much...we sell gourmet pastas and sauces made from small manufacturers from the USA and Italy. We sell on-line and via a direct mail brochure. Looking forward to reading more posts on this thread. Raymond K Lemire =====================Flying Noodle========================= bigparmesan_at_flyingnoodle.com http://www.flyingnoodle.com Raymond K Lemire, The Big Parmesan 1-800-566-0599 ================Home of The Pasta Club===================== -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Sullivan Organization: Jim Sullivan's Ad-Ventures MIME-Version: 1.0 To: online_ads_at_interedge.com Subject: P&G Kevin, Right on!!! Write on!!! Yahoo gets the big raspberry, the old Bronx cheer, and a few expletives thrown in for good measure. Very, very, very counter-productive on their part. As they used to say in the 60's, "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem". Publishers and site owners beware. Others like P&G will now attempt to make a Yahoo out of you. Jim Sullivan -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Sokolnicki Subject: Re: Off Come the Gloves I probably cannot address the 'Yahoo/P&G' subject with quite the same passion as Kevin, but I would certainly agree with many of his sentiments. When I first heard of this 'click-thru' deal I had two thoughts: 1. It was a belated April Fools joke, or 2. dreaming of all that money from the IPO made the Yahoo management 'loopy!' There is just no logical justification for this model. People who talk of all the great content that 'could' be provided are just dreaming. The reality is that these will be the rare exceptions, and certainly don't justify an industry trend. In order for it to be successful, there must be predictable value at the 'other end' of the click. As a matter of fact, I can't even imagine that the great and mighty P&G would have the resources to make this viable. Who wants to take on an ad that will get a "...been there...done that..." response? I would imagine that most people will just respond to the P&G concept with a polite "no thank you." There certainly will be more people in line to take thier place. After all, as online commerce continues to grow, the value will still be based on retail and editorial content. Would Campbells think that some day we'll all get up and check out the "Pork and Beans" report first thing in the morning, and then move on to USA Today or CNN? What surprises me the most is that P&G thought that the industry was just full of stupid, gullible, and desperate people. What surprises me even more is that Yahoo is trying to prove them right! I guess that I find it difficult to even take this situation seriously. It seems like an evolutionary 'event' that will soon hopefully become yesterday's news. Best regards, Richard F. Sokolnicki ¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥&ye n;¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥& yen;¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥ ;¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥ "...it is the real which makes itself possible, and not the possible which becomes real." - Henri Bergson ¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥&ye n;¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥& yen;¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥ ;¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥ -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Carolyn Maxine Most Subject: Re: Online-Ads DIGEST #0025 RE: >Great! The Big Boys (Jocks) have crashed the party. What's next -- will >they steal all our booze and women? Hello GUYS! There are women on board ... While I am sure there was no malicious intent, this is blatantly derogatory to "us women". Just a reminder that we are not your objects to steal, barter or in any other way control ... max Carolyn Maxine Most Marketing Consultant providing services to Mpath Interactive maxmost_at_mpath.com (408) 342 - 6937 *** Moderator: I suppose there really is no better time to respond to this, so here goes: This comment is only "blatantly derogatory" because you take it that way. The reverse of "The Beauty is in the eye of the Beholder". While I appreciate your acknowledgement that there was no malicious intent, I really feel your reaction to this is unnecessary. It was an analogous statement, and the only manner in which women (and booze) are referred to as objects is in a grammatical sense, supporting the statement, forming the sentence. Please, why get so bothered? It was meant to be derogatory only to Yahoo and Proctor & Gamble (The Big Boys). I apologize for offending any fine women out there, but I ask you, is it really necessary to be politically correct every waking moment? -- K.F. *** -------------------------------------------------------------------- ***************** PERSONAL INTRODUCTIONS ***************** -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- ***************** REQUESTS FOR INFORMATION ***************** -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- ***************** BANNER SWAP MEET ***************** -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ The Washington, D.C. Motorcade Find stores and restaurants convenient to your route! Darren J. Dobkin, http://www.motorcade.com -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Alana's Online Classified Ads - Free classifieds for 2 weeks! http://www.cdmnet.com/jordan ajordan_at_cdmnet.com -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ American Individual Magazine and Coffeehouse http://aimc.com/aimc "The gathering place for entrepreneurs and individuals following their own paths." Chuck Locurto, aimc_at_ultranet.com -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ AAutoFleet Discounted Auto FLEET PRICING To Public E-mail -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ The Volition to get FREE STUFF! http://www.volition.com/ Ray Sola Highest Rated Free-Stuff Site in Point's "Top 5% of the Web" catalog. -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Eric DePrano - President, Net Discount - PHONE (310)558-4234 http://net.discnt.com----eric_at_net2.discnt.com FAX (310)558-4233 [525,000 Visitors/month][5.3 million hits][$25 per page/mnth] Web page design & service, Market Consulting & Research, Web Site Promotion -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Catalog Site: The Original Resource Guide of Great Catalog Companies. Gary Baker, http://www.catalogsite.com -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Multimakers Alaska's Best: Alaska's Premier Online Magazine. http://www.alaskasbest.com -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Webling's Cafe mvassist_at_embratel.net.br (Tom Venetianer) http://mvassist.pair.com/ -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Pacific Coast Feather Company Ray Dornbusch http://www.pacificcoast.com/pcf/ad/partner.htm -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ EntreeNet: The premier online guide to restaurants! EntreeNet/NY Capital District: Kim Van Dyke, http://www.albany.net/~barnowl/entree.htm -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ BUY IT OnLine: Your online GUIDE to locating products and services! Mary Wolf, webmaster_at_buyitonline.com http://www.buyitonline.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- ==================================================================== Online Advertising is moderated by Kevin Fadden. 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