The Online Advertising Discussion List Archives

Online Advertising Discussion List -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- List Moderator: Supported by: Kevin Fadden InterEdge kfad_at_interedge.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- April 27, 1996 Digest#0028 -------------------------------------------------------------------- ******************************************************************** This week's sponsor: InterEdge For more information on this fertile advertising ground, check out our rate card at: -------------------------------------------------------------------- [THIS SPACE FOR RENT] For information on sponsoring Online-Ads, see: ******************************************************************** Here's what the running total of votes are for: DIGEST v. SINGLE MESSAGES 11 3 In this Digest... NEW ------- CONTINUING ------- "Bulk Email" ~ Dave Reske "mailing list of U.S. ISP's?" ~ Jim Sullivan "Off Come the Gloves (was re: Yahoo and Proctor & Gamble)" ~ Cheri Sigmon ~ Mehmet Kurtkaya ~ peter temes ~ Kevin Fadden PERSONAL INTRODUCTIONS ------- REQUESTS FOR INFORMATION ------- BANNER SWAP MEET ------- Look here for a *short* listing of sites that are looking to swap ad banners with each other, you, and everyone else. ***************** NEW ***************** -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- ***************** CONTINUING ***************** -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Reske Subject: Bulk Email Moderator, I'd like to respond to Naomi Kockentiet's Bulk e- mail question. Aren't you concerned about the negative publicity associated with bulk email? In addition to the response rate, you may want to consider how people feel about your organization after they receive an unsolicited email. One idea you might try is including options for people as they register on your Web site. For example you might ask if they want to receive information in specific categories. If you email to people who have requested information in specific categories, it might help reduce the negative response. > =================================== David Reske, President Online Computer Market, Inc. reske_at_ocm.com 313 Speen Street, Suite 202, Natick, MA 01760 http://www.directchoice.com (508) 651-0070 x275 DirectChoiceú is the first one-to-one marketing application sofware for the Web. -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Sullivan Subject: mailing list of U.S. ISP's? In response to the post from Judith about a list of ISPs. Boardwatch Magazine at http://www.boardwatch.com publishes a book of all ISPs. I'm not sure if they have an on-disk version. It's a good magazine too. Jim Sullivan --------------------------------------------------------------------\ From: "Cheri Sigmon [ http://jit.com ]" Subject: P/I ad model - pros/cons - was p&g [Off Come the Gloves (was re: Yahoo and Proctor & Gamble)] => Hi, all ... Here's my take on the P&G fiasco: a - the upside: greater RISK for _potential_ greater rewards, which appeals to the 'greedy' side of human nature. < grin > b - the DOWNSIDE: this isn't _reality_! The WEB is NOT like the traditional "P/I" ad model, or "per inquiry." Usually you get this in 4 instances, which are as follows ... 1) the providers just don't "know" any better (or care) 2) they DO know better & are simply _greedy or desperate_ 3) they want to attract more attention by being different 4) they cave in to pressure & "lose" in negotiations - IOW -- they "sell out" to the "big kahunas" 'cause they can't _justify_ VALUE they deliver otherwise. This will be a passing non-event, imho. Time will tell ... Cheri Sigmon - york sc usa - PRO Web Sites (tm) < > email: cheri_at_jit.com http://jit.com/server.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mehmet Kurtkaya Subject: Off Come the Gloves (was re: Yahoo and Proctor & Gamble) >From: noodle_at_plainfield.bypass.com (Raymond K Lemire) >Subject: Click-Thru Advertising > >Kevin, I agree with you 100% concerning the Yahoo/P&G Click-thru discussion >but for a very different reason. > >As a small business owner the thought of paying based on the number of >visitors to my site is a very scary proposition. Especially if the visitors >are part of the great unwashed masses (i.e. unqualified prospects). > >Going into an advertising situation expecting a price of $300 is one thing, >receiving a bill for $3,000 or $30,000 would be something considerably >different! Well, I am sure there will be a way to fix it: such as discarding the ad after you reach a certain amount click throughs, or a trial period etc. Cheers, Mehmet Kurtkaya Hotels and Travel Services in Turkey http://www.xmission.com/~gastown/ebb/index.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter temes Subject: Off Come the Gloves (was re: Yahoo and Proctor & Gamble) Well, Kevin and I disagree. First, on the specifics: the entire newspaper, TV and magazine industry is in fact not run by CPM. CPM ads are indeed the large majority, but especially when you look at new publications, new ad vehicles of other sorts, and very traged vehicles, per-inquiry (or PI) ads are quite common. I've been buying PI media, including a TV campaign running right now, and lots of Newspapers, for quite a while. Who goes for PI ads in traditional media? Direct response firms, who are adding traditional media to direct mail efforts but don't want to lose the measurability of mail, and others who frankly don't want to take the risk of a specific vehicle, but will experiment if the risk is contained. When I was told by an ad broker that I could get Toyota and Microsoft and Netscape ads for the Daily Online Meida sites, I was thrilled, But then I ran the numbers. The reason these big advertisers are willing to go on the web and take a risk on CPM ads is that they pay so darned little. My feeling is that web viewers are so deeply connected to the medium that we should be paid a much higher CPM, not a lower one, than traditional vehicles. SO to get only 10 or even 20 bucks per thousand is nutso cheap. SO we went o make more. By charging a clickthrough to CatalogLink or Omaha Steaks, low-presitge ads, for sure, I nonetheless make a lot more, becasue these guys, Direct marketers to the core, mesure the value of each visitor to their site, pay me a portion of it (which come out higher than the CPM model for me) and we're all happy. I don't care about the abstract principal behind CPM vs clickthrough. I'm in this to make a living, and my point is that for a braod band of advertisers, you'll either get no busienss at all, or inadvertantly off super-cheap deals, if you stay with CPM. Peace. Peter -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kevin Fadden Subject: Re: Off come the gloves <<<>>> >Well, why not ask for click-through only? Advertisers want leads that are PRE-QUALIFIED. Only the Web can do this in REAL-TIME while a lead is HOT. Just because the Web can do it, does not mean the publisher -- from an economic standpoint -- can. >This is VALUE. This is what advertisers pay for. If you can do this for them CHARGE them. If your site regularly draws the kind of people they want to get in front of, CHARGE them for the visitors as well as the click-through folks. However, if you have a new site with no track record, but hope to attract a certain clientele, click-through only billing is an excellent tool to draw those initial advertisers. However, if you are a good business person, your agreements will comprehend that you could become successful, and that the click-through only strategy will then hurt your revenues. > >I can't understand why you are upset at your customers for wanting value and service. You have to sell them on your value. If convinced, they will pay. Those ad-revenue-based sites that don't put together a good business model will die. I'm upset because, by and large, they do not want to pay for all of the VALUE they are getting -- namely, brand exposure. As a seller of advertising, I certainly AM willing to go to great lengths to make sure my clients' ads are being seen by the right people, BUT, I expect to be paid for that, and I expect to be paid for the impression, as well as for the click-through. In other words -- nobody is getting anything for free, dammit. That's what the click-through only people are asking for -- free impressions -- and they will get them over my dead body or businees, whichever goes first. <<<>>> >Wow! This seems to be a touchy subject. > >Actually, the whole thing is pretty obvious - Kevin's right, impression pricing >makes sense for both advertisers and publishers. > >Except that: > * some publishers are charging way too much per impression > * a sneaky advertiser can use click-through for free benefits > * there is a way that click-through pricing works for publishers > >For those interested in the click-through vs. impression debate, I've put >together a nice hyperlinked piece that explains why impression pricing is >*BEST*, but why some folks might want click-through pricing. > > Impression vs. Click-Through Pricing > >Let me know what you think. Those of you have not checked this out should. If my rantings and ravings are too much for you, this gives a well-thought out and civil explanation of why impression based is better than click-through based advertising. - Kevin Fadden (kfad_at_interedge.com) -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- ***************** PERSONAL INTRODUCTIONS ***************** -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- ***************** REQUESTS FOR INFORMATION ***************** -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- ***************** BANNER SWAP MEET ***************** -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ The Washington, D.C. Motorcade Find stores and restaurants convenient to your route! Darren J. Dobkin, http://www.motorcade.com -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Alana's Online Classified Ads - Free classifieds for 2 weeks! http://www.cdmnet.com/jordan ajordan_at_cdmnet.com -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ American Individual Magazine and Coffeehouse http://aimc.com/aimc "The gathering place for entrepreneurs and individuals following their own paths." Chuck Locurto, aimc_at_ultranet.com -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ AAutoFleet Discounted Auto FLEET PRICING To Public E-mail -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ The Volition to get FREE STUFF! http://www.volition.com/ Ray Sola Highest Rated Free-Stuff Site in Point's "Top 5% of the Web" catalog. -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Eric DePrano - President, Net Discount - PHONE (310)558-4234 http://net.discnt.com----eric_at_net2.discnt.com FAX (310)558-4233 [525,000 Visitors/month][5.3 million hits][$25 per page/mnth] Web page design & service, Market Consulting & Research, Web Site Promotion -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Catalog Site: The Original Resource Guide of Great Catalog Companies. Gary Baker, http://www.catalogsite.com -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Multimakers Alaska's Best: Alaska's Premier Online Magazine. http://www.alaskasbest.com -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Webling's Cafe mvassist_at_embratel.net.br (Tom Venetianer) http://mvassist.pair.com/ -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Pacific Coast Feather Company Ray Dornbusch http://www.pacificcoast.com/pcf/ad/partner.htm -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ EntreeNet: The premier online guide to restaurants! EntreeNet/NY Capital District: Kim Van Dyke, http://www.albany.net/~barnowl/entree.htm -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ BUY IT OnLine: Your online GUIDE to locating products and services! Mary Wolf, webmaster_at_buyitonline.com http://www.buyitonline.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- ==================================================================== Online Advertising is moderated by Kevin Fadden. Please send suggestions and comments about the list to me at: kfad_at_interedge.com Send your posts to: online_ads_at_interedge.com Read General Information, Archives and FAQ at: http://www.interedge.com/OnlineAd_FAQ.html Subscribe by sending a blank message, with the subject field set to SUBSCRIBE to: online_advertising_at_interedge.com Unsubscribe by sending a blank message, with the subject field set to UNSUBSCRIBE to: online_advertising_at_interedge.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - For info on these other mailing lists: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Internet-Sales Discussion List, Moderated by John Audette http://www.mmgco.com/isales.html Internet-Marketing Discussion List, Moderated by Glenn Fleishman http://www.i-m.com/ High Tech Marketing Communications Discussion List, Moderated by Kim M. Bayne http://www.bayne.com/wolfBayne/htmarcom/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ******************************************************************** This week's sponsor: InterEdge For more information on this fertile advertising ground, check out our rate card at: -------------------------------------------------------------------- [THIS SPACE FOR RENT] For information on sponsoring Online-Ads, see: ******************************************************************** ---------- End of Online Advertising Disussion Digest ---------

Visit our other web sites:
Tennis Server | Tennis Server Ticket Exchange | MyCityRocks | MyCityRocks Ticket Exchange